[Apple-Crop] Cueva/Double Nickel

Mon May 1 09:59:22 EDT 2017

Hi Vincent,

I'm sorry that our trials resulted in the opposite expectation. Most of 
the company protocols ask me to apply their products at 100 gal/A. I 
guess they were hoping to increase the chance of showing product injury 
at my field days. I thought it was a more universal tree row volume for 
apples, my mistake. The field crews at Geneva and Ithaca sprays 
everything at 100 gal/A. I guess it's an underhanded attempt to 
potentially injure our plots with copper. With all my dilute handgun 
applications, I'm surprised that I don't have potatoes. I guess I keep 
getting lucky.

Best,
Kerik
> Hi Kerik,
>
> I don’t know how much experience you actually have with airblast 
> sprayer trials varying volume, but this is something we do routinely.
>
> Evidence of copper injury with high volume sprays dates back (at 
> least) to 1972. Look it up. Classic experiments demonstrate the same 
> amount of copper can defoliate plants or result in no injury, just by 
> varying volume.
>
> Let’s say I have a hard time “swallowing” your aspirin  analogy…! 
> Let’s stick to apples, OK?
>
> The fact that labels require you to apply large volumes of water 
> doesn’t make it a sound or sensible advice.
>
> Most likely, the labels reflect the trial conditions. And most trials 
> in the USA are run with high volume….!
> Vincent
>
>
>> Le 1 mai 2017 à 08:31, Kerik D. Cox <kdc33 at cornell.edu 
>> <mailto:kdc33 at cornell.edu>> a écrit :
>>
>> Hi Vincent,
>>
>> We've found that concentration is potentially more damaging with 
>> copper than higher volumes as the both 50gal and 100gal get the same 
>> amount of copper. It's like taking powdered aspirin with half the 
>> recommended amount of water. Also, many labels in the US actually 
>> require that certain products be applied in a minimum of 100 gal/A. 
>> If were potentially injurious to apply at 100 gal/A, I assure you 
>> that no company would include any such statements on label. Actually, 
>> they would, without a doubt, put statements saying that the product 
>> should not be applied at 100 gal/A or injury would occur. Excess 
>> water seems to just roll off the trees in our  experiments.
>>
>> Best,
>> Kerik
>>> I hope you meant a Low volume of water. High volume = slow drying = 
>>> russeting. This is very easy to demonstrate. We do it as a "control" 
>>> in plots. We always have copper induced russeting at 500 L/ha and 
>>> none at 225 L/ha.
>>>
>>> Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
>>>
>>> Le 1 mai 2017 à 08:05, Two Onion Farm <farmer at twoonionfarm.com 
>>> <mailto:farmer at twoonionfarm.com>> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Kerik Cox at Cornell has done trials with this combination for 
>>>> cedar apple rust, summer fungal diseases, and fireblight and has 
>>>> had good results.
>>>>
>>>> We started using the combination in our organic orchard last year 
>>>> and did not see any problems with fruit russeting.  Kerik did 
>>>> caution me to use a high volume of water to avoid toxicity from the 
>>>> copper (100 gallons per acre vs our normal 50 in our high density 
>>>> orchard).   We have used 2 qts/acre Cueva + 2 lbs/acre 2ble nickel.
>>>>
>>>> Kerik also suggested that the 2ble nickel might be unnecessary and 
>>>> that cueva alone might be sufficient, but that may be theoretical 
>>>> at this point.  The 2ble nickel does add a lot of cost.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> Chris & Juli McGuire
>>>> Two Onion Farm
>>>> www.twoonionfarm.com <http://www.twoonionfarm.com/>
>>>> 19638 Cottage Inn Road
>>>> Belmont, WI 53510
>>>> (608) 762-5335
>>>> farmer at twoonionfarm.com <mailto:farmer at twoonionfarm.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/1/2017 6:43 AM, maurice tougas wrote:
>>>>> A couple years ago I recall discussion regarding the use of 
>>>>> Cueva/Double Nickel combination as an alternative and/or rotation 
>>>>> with strep for fireblight management. Is anyone aware of further 
>>>>> research regarding this combination esp as to regards to crop 
>>>>> safety and efficacy ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mo Tougas
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Maurice Tougas
>>>>> Tougas Family Farm
>>>>> Northborough,MA 01532
>>>>> 508-450-0844
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>
>> -- 
>> Kerik D.  Cox, Ph.D., Associate Professor
>> Plant Pathology and Plant-Microbe Biology Section
>> School of Integrative Plant Science
>> Cornell University
>> 221 Barton Lab
>> NYSAES
>> 630 West North Street 		
>> Geneva, NY 14456 USA 	
>>
>> E-mail:kdc33 at cornell.edu  
>> Faculty Office: (315) 787-2401
>> Fruit Pathology Lab: (315) 787-2402	
>> FAX: (315) 787-2389
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>
>
>
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-- 
Kerik D.  Cox, Ph.D., Associate Professor
Plant Pathology and Plant-Microbe Biology Section
School of Integrative Plant Science
Cornell University
221 Barton Lab
NYSAES
630 West North Street 		
Geneva, NY 14456 USA 	

E-mail: kdc33 at cornell.edu
Faculty Office: (315) 787-2401
Fruit Pathology Lab: (315) 787-2402	
FAX: (315) 787-2389

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